Arm vs Qualcomm: mutually assured destruction

Jay Goldberg

Posts: 87   +1
Staff
OMG: The Arm vs. Qualcomm legal fight took a nasty turn last week, with Arm reportedly canceling Qualcomm's license to use Arm IP. This news has the makings of some scary headlines, but we think the immediate effects are likely minimal. That being said, it opens up more serious questions about what Arm aims to achieve here and how far they're willing to go to do so.

Does Arm's latest move – canceling a Qualcomm license – imply they're willing to take the very risky step of pushing this lawsuit all the way to a jury trial? At the most basic level, this lawsuit is essentially a contract dispute: Qualcomm pays one rate, and Arm thinks Qualcomm should pay a different, higher rate. But this cancellation clearly implies that Arm could cause deeper problems for Qualcomm, should they choose to.

Editor's Note:
Guest author Jonathan Goldberg is the founder of D2D Advisory, a multi-functional consulting firm. Jonathan has developed growth strategies and alliances for companies in the mobile, networking, gaming, and software industries.

Most outside observers view Arm's cancellation as a fairly common pre-trial maneuver – raising the stakes to gain negotiating leverage for the 11th-hour settlement agreement we're all expecting. We've seen this tactic deployed by litigants in legal disputes many times, including by and against Qualcomm. However, an outright cancellation seems heavy-handed, at least by the standards of our non-existent legal degree.

This brings up the question of why Arm took such a step. If the intent was to pressure Qualcomm, the move seems to have backfired. Qualcomm's stock essentially shrugged off the news, closing down 3% for the day, while Arm's dropped almost 7%. And this gets to the heart of the problem.

Qualcomm is one of Arm's biggest customers, and canceling their license falls squarely into the "cutting off your nose to spite your face" category. If we all woke up tomorrow and Qualcomm couldn't ship any chips, customers wouldn't switch to alternatives overnight. Instead, the market would face serious disruption. Apple, for instance, would have to stop making iPhones if Qualcomm couldn't ship them parts. This hurts Arm as much as it hurts Qualcomm. At best, Arm's threat seems hollow, and Qualcomm (and its lawyers) recognize this.

This brings up a more serious concern than any short-term impact from a canceled license. Arm also has plenty of smart lawyers who understand the fragile nature of this threat. What if they know this and don't care because they aren't looking to settle this lawsuit on the courthouse steps?

We worry this latest move signals that Arm wants to take this to trial. Could they see a victory in this lawsuit as providing a strong legal precedent to push through further changes to their business model and pricing? That would be a great outcome for them, but lawsuits are incredibly risky.

We have studied the industry closely for years. We have worked with both companies, negotiated these kinds of contracts many times, and read both Arm's complaint and Qualcomm's response repeatedly. And we're still not clear on who is in the right.

But somehow, a jury of regular people will be able to decipher this in a predictable fashion? Our concern goes further: even if Arm wins this lawsuit, what kind of message are they sending to the rest of their customers?

To be clear, we're not taking sides. We don't have all the facts (and we're certainly looking forward to the discovery materials), and as we've said, we have no idea who has the stronger case. Our concern is simply that this lawsuit risks harming both companies at a time when both should have more higher priorities.

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My understanding is that Qualcomm license the cortex core IP as well as the instruction set. Nuvia licenses only the ARM ISA and is a clean sheet design. Qualcomm wants to start paying for only the ISA, which will mean a big hit to ARM revenue.

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that ARM has their ISA licenses written to prevent such these types of issues. Otherwise, this would have been done a long time ago. Look no further that AMD Intel
 
I think that suggesting " the immediate effects are likely minimal" is a failure in judgement. What ARM has done can start a vicious circle unless the legal mess is quickly resolved and damage is already done.

Any questions that are raised about ARM based products is going to have a ripple effect all the way through the landscape, so when it is something as big as ARM vs. Qualcomm it is massive. The mess is certain to make anyone investing or considering investing into ARM on PC to take notice, it may at best just lead to no changes and at worse it will halt investments!

We are seeing the beginning of ARM becoming an alternative to x86, but it is still early days and for it to really happen and live both software and hardware companies needs to invest and show they are behind the new platform. However if the growing customer base shows signs of loosing interest, then those companies stop investing. I bet if you ask the early adopter PC customers about them buying a Qualcomm based system, the news about ARM vs. Qualcomm is something that is halting or at very least pausing them taking the plunge.

Intel and AMD must be laughing about the whole mess.
 
Come on OP, this is the POINT:

""Apple, for instance, would have to stop making iPhones if Qualcomm couldn't ship them parts.""

They are trying to make qualcoms #1 customer take a dump in their lunch to force them back to the table.
 
ARM is no longer competitive to the likes of Nuvia, they want more money for something they did not create or improved, they became patent trolls.
 
""Apple, for instance, would have to stop making iPhones if Qualcomm couldn't ship them parts.""
But Qualcomm is going to keep making and shipping parts. ARM cancelling, or claiming they can cancel, their license is not going to stop Qualcomm from continuing to use a license it believes is still valid. Production will continue and eventually a court decision or settlement will determine who owes who how much. That might be big news for investors on either side but probably won't stop what's happening on the ground.
 
Sifive to the rescue. Qualcomm should invest or help them improve on their flagship design (RISC-V). Open Source is the way, even if it's a long way.
 
I am laughing at this mess. Here's hoping it leads to total ARM death and Intel/AMD pick up the slack with more efficient x86 designs for portable gadgets, and in a few years the market becomes full of x86 smartphones.

Likely none of this will happen because we can't have nice things, but I can dream.

PS: I have little against the ARM ISA in itself, but it became pretty much a synonym with closed-down, anti-user locked platforms. It needs to go away.
 
In my opinion, this is far worse for Qualcomm than ARM, if this doesn't get resolved, phone manufacturers will just move onto the next best thing, Dimensity 9400 for example, Mediatek sell more and pay more in the process, Arm doesn't lose out all together, on the other hand, Qualcomm are screwed, Risc V is too far away and they have nothing remotely on the same level, Qualcomm need to get this sorted ASAP or it could spell the end for them in the SOC business, they may find themselves selling licenses for modems and GPUs to survive.
 
ARM is no longer competitive to the likes of Nuvia, they want more money for something they did not create or improved, they became patent trolls.

Also, just to add, the clock speed on the 8 Elite is 18.5% higher compared to the X925 in the 9400, yet the Elite scores only around 12% higher in single core, thus it actually has a lower IPC vs ARM latest core, facts are facts...
 
ARM will precipitate an acceleration in open-sourced RISC-V development. Just like the USA's bid to deny technology to China has just spurred them on to become independent and spend 100s of billion on their own semiconductor manufacturing and development, ARM will ultimately be the biggest loser and too bad so sad. I have no sympathy for Qualcomm as they have proven themselves to be litigious scumbags time and again but ARM is royally peeved Qualcomm was one of the many big companies that opposed Nvidia buying them and ARM's owner Softbank has been looking at ways to weaponise ARM's dominant position to screw over customers for even more money and must think Qualcomm is an easy target with deep pockets.
 
There's something going on because this is like the stupidest move I've seen. NEITHER of these companies would be anywhere close to where they are without the other. Isn't Qualcomm the largest user of arm systems in the world. Arm is good, but there are many other architectures available. So what's up?

I mean why say you know what let's fire the largest seller of our IP out of the blue.. We don't need them to pay us it's cool
 
There's something going on because this is like the stupidest move I've seen. NEITHER of these companies would be anywhere close to where they are without the other. Isn't Qualcomm the largest user of arm systems in the world. Arm is good, but there are many other architectures available. So what's up?

I mean why say you know what let's fire the largest seller of our IP out of the blue.. We don't need them to pay us it's cool
What other architectures are you thinking off,I'm curious x86 ? Yes that's ideal for mobile you just need a laptop battery that you can put in your pocket and you're golden.
 
Might this push Qualcomm towards ARM's open-source competitor RISC-V?
Qualcomm don't control Android or any OS. The biggest problem with "Windows on Arm" or "Windows on Snapdragon" is the Processor is developed by Qualcomm and the Operating System by Microsoft. Both companies need to collaborate deeply.
In the case of Smartphones, Qualcomm would have to collaborate with Google to bring Android on RISC-V to mass market.
It takes years.
Nvidia like Apple control the hardware and software. It is easier for them but it also takes time for both. It took Apple years for Mac OS to adopt Arm even though iOS was already on Arm for years. NVidia have the success they enjoy today not just because of great hardware but more because of great software due to pivoting early to CUDA then Crypto then AI.
I hope the future is more open source, maybe in a couple of decades, RISC-V and Linux will be in the lead.
For now it would take Qualcomm and Google too long to bring Android on RISC-V, they have to find a solution with Arm.
In the same way it will take years to get Android on x86x64.
 
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